TERRA NOVA CHRISTIANA
THE SEVEN TRUMPETS AND THEIR ACCORDANCE WITH THE SEVEN BOWLS
Prove that the taking away of the elect will occur between the 6th Trumpet/6th Bowl and 7th Trumpet/7th Bowl, and which is previous to the last Great War and major wrath of God upon the earth!
Rev 8 and 9: seven trumpets in accordance to the bowls: after comparison we see:
-First trumpet: hail and fire mixed with blood = bowl 1 - causes diseases
-Second trumpet: something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. Bowl 2
-Third trumpet: great star burning like a torch fell from heaven wormwood = bowl 3
-Fourth trumpet: and a third of the sun and moon and stars were struck. A third of the stars were darkened, a third of the day was without light, and a third of the night as well. Bowl 5
-Fifth trumpet is a war = Bowl 5 still darkness in the region
-Sixth trumpet again war! Bowl 6
These six trumpets are talking about the wrath, not about tribulations meant for Israel under the ministry of the lawless one.
Then we read about the seven thunders who spoke and told John not to write what he said:
Rev 10: 7 “There will be no more delay! 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled, just as He proclaimed to His servants, the prophets.”
Delay of what, and which mystery?
Is this Rapture and the very end? Seems very likely for it is what God proclaimed to his servants.
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Rev 11: the two witnesses appear. Who are they? Let’s read the chapter:
The Two Witnesses
1”And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred andthreescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”
About the churches In Rev 1: 19 we read: “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.”
John was given visions he watched, visions of what was in his time and visions of the future. Then we read about the seven stars who represent seven angels (Rev 15 could also be a sign seen in a constellation of for example the seven sisters cluster Pleiades or Orion?) Note that I do not believe in constellation alignments, for Revelation 12 is NOT a sign but a wonder! Those who predict the future by the stars are the wicked as God in bible reproves those who do that: Read about this!
But John saw also seven candlesticks representing seven churches. Now, I thought maybe these two witnesses who will preach for 3,5 years as we read, and these 3,5 years are those after the lawless appears whoes ministry begins as we read the Rev 12 chapter when the dragon is cast into earth and the woman kept away in the desert (minor conflicts) for 3,5 years, possibly could be...
What if these two witnesses are not actually two individual persons but two kind of churches for we read that these two witnesses are two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth! Could they possibly represent two kind of churches who preach during these last 3,5 years? They stand before the God of the earth!, ready to be raptured? I would almost dare to say they are, when we read they will be killed by the beast which is the islamic nations policy at that moment, and almost could refer to a war between them: christians/Israel against islamic powers wherein some undoubtly will die and some will survive.
In Rev 11: 7 we read: ... the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them,”: the beast which represent an islamic policy of nations will make ‘war’ against two people? If we have to take this literally, it's a little strange that a particular government puts everything in turmoil because of two people! If a war is people against people, then the two witnesses represent in a logical way a lot of people.
But then we read after 3,5 days (years?) the (two) dead are caught up in heaven (followed by the living ones as we read in Rev 11:18?! according to first the dead resurrect then the living), and meanwhile a great disaster occurs! Saved before the last great wrath! I think this seems likely a rapture because it matches with the timeframe of the bowls’ events when we read verse 13 as the last great wrath upon earth and Jerusalem of course, followed by the seven trumpet last great war and the end. READ BELOW VERSE 7-19 !
Rapture of the elect occurs before the great war and last great wrath upon the world! In fact the elect will disappear between the sixth Trumpet according the sixth bowl. The last trumpet is a final war on earth with a previous salvation of the dead and living elect, and announces the final end. If we regard the features of the two witnesses we see these associate with the chronologic events of the bowls. Of course the two witnesses/elect ones are not sorcerers and will not be able to perform supernatural events on this earth which we also will not ever experience until the day of the Second Coming which will be revealed as a supernatural unseen event ever in man’s history, but holy and true seen from the east into the west with lightning’s, thunders and earthquakes.
Thus, these witnesses as I think, are not two individuals but the elect for they are God’s WITNESSES, and on earth His witnesses are His elect ones! But regarding the two witnesses and their supernatural features it will be God who reveal the fire and the turning of water into blood ect..., which actually only refers to the bowls' events, but John described it as such, as giving that divine spiritual power to the elect to demonstrate how great and strong their strength and behold was until the very end, but it will be God who will perform these nature catastrophes during their preaching’s for He will protect His remnant although some will still die but not for long being dead, and as we see these supernatural features match with the catastrophically events of the bowls! That’s why i think that these two witnesses as being candlesticks are representing two remaining kind of churches that God as final will accept as His.
Remember that this is my understanding!
Rev 11: The Witnesses Killed and Raised
7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.”
Rev 11: The Seventh Trumpet
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
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And the seventh Trumpet and says:
18The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come.
The time has come to judge the dead,
and to reward Your servants,
the prophets and saints,
and those who fear Your name,
both small and great,
and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”
19Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and rolls of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.”
THIS IS THE RAPTURE PREVIOUS TO THE LAST GREAT WRATH for the Temple was opened! For who? For the elect of course!
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What do we read in Revelation 14 according harvest of the elect and the first previous war?
We read: The Three Angels and Babylon's Fall
6"Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come. Worship the One who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and the springs of waters.”8Then a second angel followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, who has made all the Gentiles to drink the wine of the passion of her immorality.”9And a third angel followed them, calling in loud a voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or hand, 10he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”
Here we read that the elect are still on earth when Babylon the great (S. Arabia/Mecca and first war of 6th Trumpet & 6th bowl) falls, but will be saved before the last great war and wrath upon earth! We see that Revelation has no allegoric sense at all but it is as it is written.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
The Harvest of the Earth
Harvest (rapture) of the elect: 14And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man, with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple, calling in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” 16So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
Judgment of the wicked: 17Then another angel (third) came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, with authority over the fire, came from the altar and called out in a loud voice to the angel with the sharp sickle, “Swing your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the vine of the earth, because its grapes are ripe.”
The last great war and death of the wicked: 19 So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and gathered the grapes of the earth, and he threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and the blood that flowed from it rose as high as the bridles of the horses, for a distance of one thousand six hundred stadia.”
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Rev 12
Then we read about the rev 12 sign, but only in the first two verses, verse 3 is about another sign we do not see in the Rev 12 constellation sign!
The physical sign we will see on September 23, 2017 only reveals the first two verses not the whole chapter.
This sign reveals the taking away of the Holy Spirit, which is the restrainer who holds back the physical revealing of the lawless one, but then we see that he arise when the dragon is cast into earth. Rev 12 could be the rapture of the Holy Spirit, (or Archangel Michael who's involved in earthly issues) and in this case not the elect for they are not the Holy Spirit but it is of the Father, and the coming of the false prophet who will claim being the first Jesus, with all the consequences of deception to those who will believe him. But Rev 12 as we see is placed in the midst of Revelation but not as a chronologic event to the previous as being an instant event! Rev 12 is simply a subsequent event after the lawless one rules not an event which occurs on the date of this sign. Rev 12 sign gives us a warning about things at hand in the near future and I do not doubt this sign announces the revealing of a saint rapture, after the lawless one his ministry, represented by the male child who refers to the symbolic number of the 144 000 sealed ones. Rev 12:17: "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
"...and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,"? Her seed? We also know there is only one rapture and one Second Coming which means there cann't be one on the date of the Rev 12 sign and one previous to the last day!
Thus, literally Her seed is Yeshua the child, and the remnant of her seed are His followers who are persecuted by the dragon! Means the saints are under tribulations, whether Jew, Israelite or gentile.
More on: Coherency Trumpets & Bowls &
Here we see that the vision of the book Revelation is not chronologic according its pictured events! Did any of current Rev 12 sign teachers claiming about rapture and second coming on this date, saw any trumpet/bowl event until today? I didn’t. And also the lawless one has not appeared yet but will when we read about the dragon cast into earth. Rev 12 is the taking away of the Holy Spirit and the arise of the lawless one. The elect in this case remain on earth until the wrath begins, after the worst tribulations.
Currently, The Middle East is waiting for the coming of their Mahdi and Israel awaits the coming of their Messiah (which actually is the Mahdi who’s the biblical man of perdition), who will deceive them and many others: https://dailymotiontops.blogspot.com/?m=0&type=video&id=x2o4s0g
Rev 15: 1 “Then I saw another great and marvelous sign in heaven: seven angels with the seven final plagues, with which the wrath of God will be completed.”
Another great sign in heaven??? Who’s going to watch this sign if the elect as many current teachers claim are already caught up according to the Rev 12’s two first verses? Did God expect the unbelievers, the heathens who know nothing about scripture to watch the signs? Sure not, but only the awaken, the elect, who are supposed to watch this sign too and not only previous signs! This means that the elect are still on earth after the revealing of the Rev 12 sign.
Rev 16: The bowls: see explaination of the seven trumpets and their accordance with the bowls above!
The we read: 15“ Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”
During these last bowls He will return for the battle which follows: “16 And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.”
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The Seventh Bowl of Wrath:
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came from the throne in the temple, saying, “It is done!”: and when this is said the elect are already taken away!
What do we read in verse 18: SAME as in Rev 11: 19 or the 7th Trumpet!
Rev 16: 18: “And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and rolls of thunder, and a great earthquake, the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth—so mighty was the great quake. 19The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled, and no mountain could be found. 21 And huge hailstones, about a hundred pounds each, a rained down on them from above. And men cursed God for the plague of hail, because it was so horrendous”.
Conclusion: the trumpets announce and depict the wrath events, and the bowls ARE the (same) events! The bowls do not chronologic follow after the trumpets, but they confirm the events of the trumpets. The bowls reveal the time/period that these will take place and that is after the tribulation. The trumpets announce the bowls’ events, and after the Rev 12 tribulations the bowls are placed in time and space.
My thought now is: When all current Rev 12 teachers who claim Revelation is a chronologic written book and they claim rapture and a second coming September this year according to the sign of Rev 12, then where did we see any bowl event occur in this world, when we state that the seven trumpets are mentioned before Rev 12 ! How then must we understand Revelation? Actually the book of Revelation is not that difficult to understand if one takes it several times over and over again until one sees the compilation of the vision and how all fits together.
John got a vision and first he saw and was told what was going to happen, and then he saw the visions was told about the real physical events of what was told in his first visions. Remember that this book was not written yesterday but almost 2000 years ago with another view, another vocabulary with the mindset of that time of a person who saw things in a distant future! How would you depict modern tribulations and current warfare if you were living in Yeshua’s time or first century?
A further conclusion: - Rev 11:11: And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. And…
-Rev 11:18: seventh trumpet And…
-Rev 14:15:Then another angel came out of the temple, calling in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” 16So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. And…
-Rev 16: 13: And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs, coming from the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. 14These are demonic spirits that perform signs and go out to all the kings of the earth, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God, the Almighty.15“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”16And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. And…
-Rev 16: 18: “And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and rolls of thunder, and a great earthquake, the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth—so mighty was the great quake. 19The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath.
These passages are all depicting the same event, they describe one and the same event before the end!
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Tribulations we see in Rev 12 where the woman is kept away in desert for 3, 5 years, are quite similar to the first part of political/religious tribulations as we know today. After this period the lawless one will show his real face for until then he revealed himself as a wolf in sheep clothes. Tribulations will increase and get worse towards the end, meanwhile God starts His wrath upon them, in particular in this region of the Middle East but not immediately upon whole world. Towards the end whole world then will be under the most horrible wrath of God.
When we read the whole book of Revelation, then we see that this book is divided into three parts: John first was everything told and shown by a vision to him, afterwards we see that everything that was first told and shown to him has now become visible through a vision so that he can write down the scenarios he saw. The center of this whole book seems to be Rev 12 where the Holy Spirit is taken away and the one responsible of this whole doom scenario until the end has been revealed.
If Bible Students had examined more than just the Bible regarding rapture of the church, they would have known that this is a mystery. For example at the end in the Secret Book of James we read about ‘children who shall come after them’, but Yeshua didn’t tell this to all His disciples, only a few knew about a mystery of the elect gentiles in the future:
“But we answered them, "He has ascended, and has given us a pledge, and promised life to us all, and revealed to us children (?) Who are to come after us, after bidding us love them, as we would be saved for their sakes. And when they heard (this), they indeed believed the revelation, but were displeased about those to be born. And so, not wishing to give them offense, I sent each one to another place. But I myself went up to Jerusalem, praying that I might obtain a portion among the beloved (elect), who will be made manifest. And I pray that the beginning may come from you, for thus I shall be capable of salvation, since they (elect) will be enlightened through me, by my faith - and through another (faith) that is better than mine, for I would that mine be the lesser. Endeavor earnestly, then, to make yourself like them, and pray that you may obtain a portion with them. For because of what I have said, the Savior did not make the revelation to us for their sakes. We do, indeed, proclaim a portion with those for whom the proclamation was made - those whom the Lord has made his sons.”
In the Apocalyps of Peter (THE AKHMIM FRAGMENT) we read:
4 “And the Lord added and said: Let us go unto the mountain (and) pray. 5 And going with him, we the twelve disciples besought him that he would show us one of our righteous brethren that had departed out of the world, that we might see what manner of men they are in their form, and take courage, and encourage also the men that should hear us.
6 And as we prayed, suddenly there appeared two men standing before the Lord (perhaps add, to the east) upon whom we were not able to look. 7 For there issued from their countenance a ray as of the sun, and their raiment was shining so as the eye of man never saw the like: for no mouth is able to declare nor heart to conceive the glory wherewith they were clad and the beauty of their countenance. 8 Whom when we saw we were astonied, for their bodies were whiter than any snow and redder than any rose. 9 And the redness of them was mingled with the whiteness, and, in a word, I am not able to declare their beauty. 10 For their hair was curling and flourishing (flowery), and fell comely about their countenance and their shoulders like a garland woven of nard and various flowers, or like a rainbow in the air: such was their comeliness.
11 We, then, seeing the beauty of them were astonied at them, for they appeared suddenly. 12 And I drew near to the Lord and said: Who are these? 13 He saith to me: These are your (our) righteous brethren whose appearance ye did desire to see. 14 And I said unto him: And where are all the righteous? or of what sort is the world wherein they are, and possess this glory? 15 And the Lord showed me a very great region outside this world exceeding bright with light, and the air of that place illuminated with the beams of the sun, and the earth of itself flowering with blossoms that fade not, and full of spices and plants, fair-flowering and incorruptible, and bearing blessed fruit. 16 And so great was the blossom that the odour thereof was borne thence even unto us.”
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apocalypsepeter-mrjames.html
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A note about the understanding and translation of ‘whole earth’ or only the Middle East: When we read the Hebrew version we see that where translations translate ‘earth’ the Hebrew word is ‘Ha’erets’ which actually means: region, part of a region, land, specific place on earth. The Hebrew word for Earth is ‘Erets’.
What says the Original Greek: γῆν: Land, ground, soil, (falling) into the earth. In all translations we see that the word γῆν was translated for earth as for land, soil, ground, our lan, upon the land… as well. So it doesn’t always refer to the whole world but major to that particular part of the world: the Middle East.
Blessed and behold,
TNC
